You Have Stepped Into The Klandy Files, 

Please Clean Your AMC Sneakers Off, and Step Into My Red Neck Hot Tub!

I learned there was a Nigerian Scam involving this idiot! Kenosha was in danger! If you don't subscribe to the Weekly AMC World Club News, where Elvis is pregnant with a alien baby, you are missing out on what is going on in the world. 

Update 2005 from the Klandy Files.  After a outburst February 23rd, 2005 when he spent a staggering 12 hours (yes, go count them, first post 10:12am, last post 12:10am next morning) whereas he should have been put in time out in a corner, finally, Randy Guynn has the dubious distinction of being the only person to have ever been kicked off the amxfiles amc-list, not once....but twice. This time he is gone for good, and I sincerely hope that online chat room which used to bustle with AMC chatter from people will somehow get over the asshole being kicked off, again, finally, and somehow rebuild the membership to a fraction of what it once was, due to it being stigmatized for years since he joined. Ironically this outburst ended with threats to shut down the amc-list, and below is some of that childish shit. ISP's and servers don't take lightly to being terrorized, and laws vary from state to state on hacking or attempts to shut them down regardless of means. I may add that in Harris County, Texas here in Houston, this could be perceived as 'making a terrorist threat' which is a Class A Misdemeanor, and is punishable by up to a two year jail term and $4k in fines or both. So enjoy the reading below from Klandy, be sure to do it on dry stomach. And there is no grand right (or left) wing conspiracy against him, when you are a asshole, people don't want to deal with you.

Tinky Randy says: It's a conspirasie, uh, conspeeercy, uh, kunpirascy, uh, everyone including Jerry Falwell is out to get me because I carry a purse and my voice changed since I used to sing in the group Menudo. Or was that New Kids On The Block? Maybe Loverboy.

What is hot? How about buying a CD from Ralph Ausmann of the AMX-Files Archives which chronicles
Mini-Mitchell Klandy's rants and raves thru the years? Click below to order. Hey, that would look great
in court as the judge would not stop laughing. Yes, this is sadly public knowledge, and reflects on all AMCers whether you are online, in a club, or not, Klandy just makes everyone look stupid besides his Telletubbie self.

I will shut down the AMC-list using this thing on my head!!!!

Klandy Po sez: "If I could ever figure out how to get out of this costume I would wipe off several years of posts on the amxfiles website off my chalky white pasty ass!" I am white like Michael Jackson you know! Do people really not want to deal with me cause I'm a AMC Village Idiot?"

And for those of you who STILL have a sense of humor, you might want to visit Stinky Winky, Dipshit, Lah-Lah and Po-Jo here, warning pimps and ho's abound but funny as hell......click here..... 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Here is a love letter threatening to shut down the amc-list with I guess telepathic superpowers Aquaman from the Justice League showed him how to do. Well, that and talk to jellyfish, whales and schools of fish:

Below is the original pile of shit posts from the amxfiles starring everyone's favorite racist.

Warning, language content from Klandy. All this below is public knowledge
and is why the amc list went into the shitter from a high of over 1000 fans
at one time to few today. Sadly one asshole CAN ruin it for everyone. And
even more sad it that everyone who reads this, from non AMC people to
suppliers like Edlebrock, Lakewood and others will hopefully not think all
AMC people are like this clown. You can pull this up on the amxfiles website
or simply take a deep breath and read it here. No, you won't read THE offending
email here where he called me a spic, which is a extremely offensive name for
a Mexican. That post was dated in April 4th, 2003. Sadly, when no one enforces
the rules and regulations on a website you have assholes crawl out from under
rocks. And again, this is why the amxfiles website went straight to hell.

========================================

Date: Monday, July 14, 2003 07:23 PM
From: Jock J Jocewicz <namdra@juno.com>

I received an e-mail from Randy Guynn stating that he has been banned
form the list. What kind of b.s. and censorship is this? Randy, who is
the owner of Performance American Style has helped a lot of us AMC'ers
out over the years with his parts and expertise. Yes, I realize Randy can
be a bit fiesty at times (so can I!) and yes, even Randy and I got into
on the list before, but I think blackballing Randy does the AMC hobby no
good!

Does anyone out there know why he can't get back on the list and who is
responsible for this?

Jock Jocewicz - President NAMDRA
================================= Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 10:37
AMFrom: Randy Guynn <amx69@swbell.net>So, supossedly I eorwarded one of
Eddie's private e-mailes to the list.That is
why I was kicked off. BULLSHIT, NOT ME, didn't happen. SOMEONE else did it
if
that happened. I am too computer dumb to know how to do that.

Randy Guynn

farna@att.net wrote:

> If you were intentionally banned, there was a reason. I think you should
have
been told why, or at least given a clue, but that's not my call. Since you
weren't try thinking about what went on (if anything) before you were put
off
and correct/temper your actions. Yes, it's a public forum, and this is a
free
country, but we have to show some degree of courtesy and respect for each
other. The list is also privately owned and run, that it's public access is
a
courtesy of the owners, not a right anyone has. That's the bottom line.
>
> "One person's freedom ends when it encroaches on another's".  I don't
remember where that quote comes from, but it's true within reason. We can't
go
around walking on egg shells either, but try to tone remarks and criticisms
down a bit if you can Randy. I know it goes a bit against your nature,
you're a
straight forward shoot from the hip kind of guy, but give it a try! To many
of
your remarks and advice is very good and missed. As for you others, you don'
t
HAVE to read every post! I simply skip over the ones that I don't want to
read
or aren't relevant to my needs or sympathies. If you don't like what Randy
or
anyone else is saying in a thread, just ignore that thread! Afraid you might
miss something? Read it or skim over, but it's YOUR CHOICE to read it or
not,
so excercise your freedom of choice! A few more do that, and a few people
tone
down/hold back just a little, and everything should be just fine on the
list.
>
> On July 16, 2003 Randy Guynn wrote:
>
> > When I had difficulty for 3 weeks and I could never get a reply to me
e-mail
> > questions sent to the AMX Files ''link'' provided on the site. I then
contacted
> > Colin Brodsky direct. I recieved a snide e-mail aluding that I had been
> > ''banned''. When I wrote back askin why. I was hit with more crappyness,
and was
> > told he was under ''no obligation'' to tell me anything.
> >
> > There ARE folks running things here[the list] behind the scenes which
the
> > general public is not aware.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Randy Guynn
> >
> > Gwendolyn Ann Smith wrote:
> >
> > > "Rick Ferron" <ferron@sympatico.ca>, you said...
> > >
> > > >A lot of people I know have had difficulty with the list at times...I
doubt
> > > >he has been 'banned'. John Newell, for example, took like 3 or 4
weeks
to
> > > >finally get hooked up, not sure what the problem was but it was a
pain.
I
> > > >got 'kicked' myself about a month ago, I just got this message that I
had
> > > >unsubscribed successfully (I had done no such thing) and had to
> > > >re-subscribe.
> > >
> > > While I have not personally had to deal with that, I do know of a
couple
> > > other folks who ended up unsubscribed, and had a hell of a time trying
to
> > > resubscribe.  I certainly hope that this is investigated as a list
> > > problem, rather than being assumed to be a "vendetta" issue.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Gwen Smith
================================ Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2003 12:52
PMFrom: Archimedes <Freedom@Apple2.com>With all due respect, Randy, I asked
Eddie to send me that message with the
full headers.  It is not forged (forged messages have a few telltales), and
it came from your computer.  I think you owe both Eddie and the list an
apology.

If you were indeed banned by Colin, I am sure he had his reasons.  He
doesn't make decisions like that lightly.

This is not a "public" list.  It is privately owned and operated.

There is no "freedom of speech" on private property; nor is there any such
thing as "censorship" on private property.

When a government comes along and tells you that you can't say XXX while on
a street you paid for (ie a public street), THAT is censorship.

When Colin comes along and tells you you can't insult him in his own living
room, that is called "the right to quiet enjoyment of one's own property".

The street is yours.  The living room is Colin's.

Colin is hosting this list voluntarily.  Think of it as a corner of his
living room.  We can be civil to him and abide by the rules in his house,
or he is within his rights to make us leave.

You are frequently a valuable participant on this list.  But remember that
Colin doesn't have to let you stay on a list he provides as a volunteer --
so be polite.

I think you should seriously reconsider what you say on the list,
especially to and about other people you don't like.


======================================= Date: Friday, August 22, 2003 12:41
PMFrom: Randy Guynn <amx69@swbell.net>I believe someone is capturing e-mail
address along with headers from
the AMC List. I believe this because I an being hit with SPAM left and
right with headers being used as those directly from threards on the AMC
Files.

Anyone else have this happening??

Not to sound overly parinoid, but it sure seems strange with all the
problems lately on the AMClist site. Pages dissappear, folks get removed
without knowing it, rumor of ''looks like someone might have hacked the
site'', etc. Now, people are being hit with these ''mega attachments''
coming from the List it seems. Is something Wrong????  Is the server the
site is hosted on SAFE???  Something , somewhere in all this seems very
strange to all be coincidence, all these type things associated with
this site to have so much ''problems/troubles'' in such a short length
of time.

Sure seems really strange to get SPAM that is using e-mail addresses and
the exact headers that are on this site. And , all this started the same
time all the ''mega attachments'' & ''wrong address'' returned e-mails
started yesterday.

Is someone trying to hack the Host?? Our web site?? Or is the web host
not very secure and safe to begin with???

Later,

Randy Guynn========================================== Date: Wednesday,
August 27, 2003 08:00 AMFrom: Randy Guynn <amx69@swbell.net>George, List,

Now George, they don't allow any NAME CALLING on this list.
''KNOW-IT-ALL is NAME CALLING. Can't you post your OPINION without
resorting to such rash statements??

Fact is, you are arguing with the ink in parts books. Fact is , yes
there are typos in books, but EVERY SINGLE PARTS BOOK EVER WRITTEN BY
AMC, I don't think so.

As for ASE master mechanic, yes, I know one of those, in fact, hje is
the EXACT person that brought to my attention that a 2.87 carrier will
not work with a 3 series gear.

As for ''magic'' you must have a crystal ball or something because you
seem to KNOW what I have and have not done.You somehow seem to KNOW I
have not ever built a model 20 rearend, what else does your crystal ball
tell you I have or have not done in my life. Did your Daddy ever tell
you that NON Know-it-alls DON'T always know it all too?? Did Daddy ever
tell you ''Don't make assumptions, it makes you look foolish??

George, Don't call names, don't make argue with signposts, it makes ytou
look foolish and it does not get you anywhere.

Thanks,
Randy Guynn======================================== Date: Tuesday, August
26, 2003 07:28 AMFrom: Randy Guynn <amx69@swbell.net>George,List,

George, if you are wanti9ng to talk Facts, then lets really talk facts,
not fantacy.

Fact, AMC offers TWO different carriers for AMC model 20 rears. Fact,
part numbert 319 0440 is for fitting 3.15 and up gears. Fact, part
number 322 6978 is for fitting the 2.87 and down gears. How is this
misleading George?? Comes straight out of the AMC Factory parts book.

Wow, George, you are a  magician, you can install gears on pieces they
were not meant to go on. Misleading???

Fact is, you are incorrect, fact is there are TWO carriers for AMC model
20. Sorry George, the parts book is correct, and thousands of Knowing
AMCers are correct. You cannot just swap any old gear on to any old AMC
20 carrier, you need the correct carrier for the gear you wish to run.

Ypou can argue all you want, that will not change the ink on the pages
of the parts book.

Thanks,
=====================================RE:Red V8 engines for the umpteenth
timeDate: Saturday, September 13, 2003 07:30 PMFrom: Randy Guynn
<amx69@swbell.net>Jim,

Not my list, never said it was.

Engine paint was discussed pretty heavy about 6 weeks ago or so.And the
so called ''Special Block'' B.S. has gone on for YEARS, with same bad
rumors passed by the same folks that do not want to learn, just pass
B.S. and guess.

Never said I knew everything, I don't.I ask questions when I don't know.

when YOU JIM, Ask questions, Do you want the REAL facts, or do you want
RUMORS??

Do you not UNDERSTAND that when the same B.S. rumor gets passed  &
passed, Passed, that the real answers to questions NEVER really get
settled?? If you don't INTEND opn settleing something , then why ask the
question to start with??

Now plesase Jim, quit trying to stir crap and just stick to AMCs.

Thanks,

Randy Guynn=========================================Your last post:freedom
of speachDate: Sunday, September 14, 2003 10:59 AMFrom: Randy Guynn
<amx69@swbell.net>Steve,

Read it , liked what you said, and agree with what you said.

I don't think you leveled that at me, but at everyone in general.

As for ''being right all the time'', no one ever is. But right answers do a
lot
of good, wrong answers do a lot of damage. Facts are facts, they don't
change.
No matter how right or wrong someone is, the Facts remain a constant.

example, When someone asks, Can I fire 357 ammo out of my .38?? And they get
the answers, SURE, both the same diameter case. well, if you run 357 thru a
38
long enough[maybe the first shot on some junk] then you are liable to get
you
damn hand blown off. But the answer was ''correct'', same otter case
diameter.

The fight still remains the same. Facts are facts, they don't change. Even
if
someone lies to you, the FACTS still remain true. So, to me, it is not about
being right of wrong, it is about sharing FACTS not RUMORS. Still [to me] if
you KNOW, speak up, if you do not KNOW, SHUT UP and don't muddy the waters,
they are quiet muddy enough.

Just because you sell AMC parts& cars, Collect AMC parts & cars, Sell
Newsletters about AMC parts & cars Does not make you RIGHT or WRONG. What
makes
one right or wrong is the FACTS they use.If you are mis-informed, you are
still
WRONG.I would THINK Anyone that is SERIOUS about their hobby, would want the
FACTS so that they would KNOW they are passing off FACTS, and not years
worth
of RUMORS. Then on the other side of this, you have unscrupulous AMCers that
want but ONE thing, Your Money, They don't care about facts, rumors, lies,
they only care about ONE thing, Take you in, Seperate you from your money,
and
let you go. Lie, Cheat, & Steal
is all that type knows. That does not mean you KNOW you are being suckered,
it
means that Some will go to ANY length to lie to you, all the while leading
you
to THINK they are Really on top of things, while they themselves KNOW they
are
merely lying, cheating, stealing as much as possible.[name for this is
FRAUD} I
would HOPE that AMCers would want that kind of trash out of their hobby.

 Man, AMC sure built a lot of nice looking cars that I really enjoy looking
at,
working on, & LEARNING about.Facts is about the only way to LEARN, Rumor
does
not TEACH anything except falsehood.

Thanks,
Randy Guynn

======================================Re: Disc pads - 68 AMXDate: Thursday,
September 18, 2003 09:47 PMFrom: Randy Guynn <amx69@swbell.net>Dan,

there are brakes which we can now buy to put on out AMC front spindle
stub. These are not Junl Yard swaps, they involve going to WilWood and
dropping quiet a few hundred bucks. The G.M. & Mopar crown has had these
for a long time, and that contengent does not seem to mind payi9ng good
money for good parts. However in the AMC hobby I find very few folks
will ing to ''duplicate'' what other car hobby guy's do, Buy what they
Really want. No, most times, they complain it is TOO HIGH. In other
words, there is no need to come up with anoth knuckle for AMC for much
better brakes. All you need do is just go to the place that already
makes them, plunk down the bucks, and away you go.

Now please do not take this as a put down, or ''getting on the AMC hobby
case'', it is not meant that way. What is meant is just what is said,
AMC crown will not [for the most part] spend the money on upgrade
packages likr Ford, Chevy, Mopar contingent will do. It is a hard cold
fact.

The other problem with all Up Grade parts from folks in car hobby , but
not in AMC parts, is, where pray tell is a ligitimate company going to
Advertise their AMC parts?? There is not ONE AMC publication that any
major manufacturer can trust to advertise in. Club newsletters  don't
cut it, I know, I speak to major manufacturers all the time. The
$2000-5000 per month per full page advertising these guys are used to,
DOES NOT exist in the AMC world. Major manufacturers, and the guy with
the FAKE business do not need to be advertising together in the same
publication. This is exactly why legitimate publications demand proof of
business before running ''Comercial'' advertising. No, not the AMC
hobby. Any club, no matter what baloney you pull, will allow you to
continue to lie & cheat the club members even when the ''power that be''
in the clubs KNOW it 100% . So, when the clubs will not have legitimate
places to advertise, manufacturers do not have anywhere they can
''trust'' to advertise AMC products, this results in the situation we
have now. AMC hobby did not get in this condition overnight, it was
''raised'' this way from infantcy, by a few guy's that formed their
little ''fifedom'' and so far, not a single one of the little ''fifes''
will relent control . As long as the ''kings'' of the hobby run each
club as their OWN, rather than for the ''good '' of the hobby, we will
have the same situation we are faced with today. Our long term future
should be in our own hands, but for some reason, we PAY someone else to
keep the AMC future in the Last Century, we pay the club leader
everytime we renew membership, to KEEP legitimate companies from have
anything to do with AMC because the clubs are for the most part, so OPEN
to abuse from non legitimate sellers. This always runs off legitimate
folks, because they don't want to be associated with ''underhanded
tactics''. So, we, the customer continue to pay to club leader, w2hile
in fact, the club leader does not CARE about his customer base. If had
had concern for you, the customer, the club member, he would do
EVERYTHING he could to be certain that no one would lie, cheat, & steal
to the rest of the club members he is being paid to Represent. Instead,
the attitude is, Let him lie, cheat, Steal, as long as he pays his dues,
I don't care, buyer beware.

Sorry if I got off subject. But yes, great bolt on brakes ARE available
to us, they just cost money. AMC brakes like this are not advertised
since the manufacturer feels he has no place to advertise the pieces.
But if you want that set of 11 or 12 inch rotors, & those neat 4 piston
aluminum calipers just like the other marques like Chevy, Ford, Mopar
have, you will have tp pony up the Same amount of money they do, about
$1200-1400 is the going rate. If you want $100.00 junk yard equilevent,
there is not on for AMC, but alas, there is not one for GM, Ford, or
Mopar either. I know these parts are available, I know AMC people that
have them on their cars. Not 100.00 junk yard swaps, but the new high
dollar ''good stuff'' like everyone says they wish they could get for
AMc. You can get it, it just costs money.

Thanks,
Randy Guynn============================================tony Z. Thanks, and I
can vouchDate: Saturday, September 20, 2003 10:54 AMFrom: Randy Guynn
<amx69@swbell.net>List,

First thanks so much to Tony Z. for providing answers about the
Edewlbrock rumors. Someone closer to the situation usually has the story
which is a lot closer to the truth. I too had doubts Edelbrock suddenly
stepped up with two heads & a drop on EFI all for lowly AMC in just one
season. Yes Tony, I understand your situation with Move and all, plus
some medical issues earlier this year: pust a lot of strees & strain on
a person.

Tony Z. was not just ''blowing smoke'' about anyone running commercial
ads in AMC publications. I too have been up against Closed Doors as
well. Example. I tried for over a solid year to advertise in CACI/AMCWC
with no luck at all. Phone calls directly to the man in charge got
nothing done. After over a year had gone by, and after I recieved my
''renewal'' notice, but I replied No renewal was coiming because I was
not allowed to advertise my business, THEN, I sudenly got a scribbled
note showing Ad rates. Too Little too late.

Again, AMO comes up as a ''hard'' place to get commercial ads run. My
personal expierence there. I wrote asking about commercial ad rates. Got
no reply. I called the AMO ad people, never got a return call, I had to
leave a message. In the year 2000, the AMO national show was in Houston
Texas. I again sought out the folks that takes care of AMO ads. The
''sponser a page''
 campaine of theirs had just started. I wanted involvement in that. I
could not get an ad rate. After more months of writing, Calling, I got
absolutely nothing. But the program is in full swing.

Backing up a step, When I saw AMO people in person face to face, I
inquired about running a commercial business card ad. They have those on
the back page. I was told ''there is no more room'' However, the curent
issue [back then] & the coming issues for the rest of that year had TWO
open places for business card ads.

Jock & NAMDRA, Yes, over the years Tony could well have tried everything
to advertise there with no results. I as well as Jock knows that due to
one thing or another he has been ''lost , unable to be found'' once or
twice over the years.

This goes back to what Tony said about '' Vendor troublemakers''. I have
never seen that term, & I don't know if that is how I would clasify it.
But..... Let this testemony show, Advertising in AMC club newsletters IS
NOT being handled in a way that is fair & impartial by the majority of
the AMC club newsletters. This testimony of Tony, & myself, should drive
hom,e the point I was trying to make with my Rant earlier. Major
manufacturers, Will not try to use Club publications to advertise
because they feel they cannot TRUST the club publication. In other
words, They put no trust in the fair & iimpartial treatment which SHOULD
be in place for a publication. The main stream media publications are
Legitimate publications that accept ads from Anyone that can prove they
opperate a business .

This post by Tony should prove to the AMC world that my rant about Clubs
& advertisers, Scam artists, Fake businesses and such is not Fantacy,
but FACT. This post should also prove what I have said the other major
manufacturers use the words ''Fifes, Fifedoms, & Kings, when describing
the various clubs and the club publications. IF, every club newsletter
was fair & impartial, anyone with a business willing to pay their going
rate for commercial ads would have an ad running. That IS NOT the case.
Someone somewhere in the organization STOPS certaing folks from being
able to advertise. WHY??? I don't know, I can suspect it is as Tony
thinks, ''other vendors'' that do not want the competition and they have
someone ''in their pocket'' so all competition gets nipped in the bud. I
do not Know this, but after while anyone with much of a brain starts to
try to figure out the WHY.

So, not in theory, but in Practice, this pretty much illustrates HOW &
WHY major manufacturers have thje opinion that they have of Club
Newsletters. Jock, Larry, Darryl, see, by your actions or your
underlings actions, you ''kings'' have taken money from your
''customers'' and KEPT them from KNOWING about certain things & vendors
in your publication. Yes, you have kept this hobby in the ''dark ages''
, rather than let it evolve with the rest of the mainstream automobile
hobby as it grows.

Now maybe since you folks can see that Randy & his rant is not an
issolated incident, you can begin to understand the ''hole'' our hobby
is in. Just like has been said, you cannot TRUST the ''kings'' & their
newsletters. All the Favortisim needs to STOP in its tracks, but it Will
Not. ''Kings'' will not let it. Their attitude is, ''I have done it this
way for 30 years & i will run it like this til the day I die'' same way
dictators run countries. The Major manufactures were not Born knowing
these things, they Learned them over time. AMC hobby is no different in
that respect that Chevy, Ford, or Mopar. This is why Majors do not
advertise in ANY club type publication. They learned that ''they can't
be trusted''.

All comments welcomed, this is how the uneducated gets an education when
there are no ''classes'' on the subject.

Thanks again Tony for telling us what you know, what you have been thru,
and your personal observations on advertising with club publications.
Keep up with the Patches, good luck on getting settled in new place.
Congrats on 18 year marrage, I am now pushing toward 34 years myself.

Randy Guynn=======================================Re: tony Z. Thanks, and I
can vouchDate: Sunday, September 21, 2003 01:03 AMFrom: Randy Guynn
<amx69@swbell.net>Frank,

Just what part of the truth do you want me to sugar coat ??? Did I say
anything about VIOLENCE???? I don't see it. Did I tell the entire world
that major manufacturers think ALL car clubs are the SAME, not
trustworthy when it comes to the little kingdoms?? Then, Tony only drove
home the same point. I am tring to make e3xplaination as to WHY the AMC
hobby gets futher & futher behind, not growing.

Frank, you do not run a club do you?? O.K. why don't you go, sit down,
make a few phone calls, call manufacturers, solicit advertisemenyts and
SEE if you work at it if you sell any ads??? Now, pass that list to
Jock, club president of NAMDRA, Jock, use the list, make some calls.
sell some ads. I( KNOW, in both cases, both organizations could USE the
money. When it is all said and done, I bet you, Frank sell at least One
ad, if you try. I bet Jock gets flat out NO response at every call;. I
will be more than happy to set you up with numbers to manufacturers of
AMC parts that have told me face to face they WISH the AMC hobby had a
TRUSTWORTHY place for them to advertise in. In fact, THREE times this
year, the same one has made the same comment starting in March of this
year.

Lets see, so we now have testimony from TWO different full time AMC ONLY
vendors that CANNOT get advertising space in various club newsletters,
but at the same time, FAKE AMC businesses can have ANY & ALL commercial
ad space they want, but none of that situation would allow you, Frank
Swagert, or any other ''died in the wool'' AMC guy think that our
National clubs are run by anything other than EVEN HANDED folks that
want to be SURE everyone gets an even break, and that the Club members
they represent get the LATEST Info & parts. When in fact, the clubs have
PROVEN witout a showdow of doubt, they will publish LIEs in an article.
They will discover they published LIEs in the article. They will  NOT
print a retrtaction or appology about letting a BIG LIE get printed.
Then, they will allow the same person that decieved them, the same one
that EMBARRESED them about printing lies in THEIR CLUB publication. They
will allow that same person to continue to DECIEVE everyone they
advertise to be claiming to be a business when the ''powers that be''
KNOW better. No, the attitude is NOT fairness, No by ACTIONS, the
attitude is, I don't care if you lie, just keep paying me money, I will
be sure to keep promoying you. Afterall, if I let LEGITIMATE vendors
advertise here, my buddies might have to Share tyhe market, so let's
just be sure the legitimate guy's get ''discouraged'' from advertising
with us.

Hear LIP, see ACTION, what does it tell you???

Tony tells his rememberance, Tony is Great. Randy tells his, Randy is
bad, even though they both said the same thing. Randy posted it, Tony
seconded it, Randy said, see what I been telling you. Now, Frank wants
to STIR rather than Listen to the facts.

Give me a BREAK!!!!!!!!!!. Frank, why not just reply with , ''Hey, Randy
ain't makin' this up, it has happened to ANOTHER vendor as well?? No,
instead, you have to reply trying to tell ME, how to post my
expierences. ''so I don't offend anyone'' WHY stir crap FranK????

Frank, if you want to complain about me for telling the truth about the
state of the Clubs/Hobby and how that situation hurts everyone in the
hobby. PLEASE COMPLAIN YOUR BUTT OFF!!!!!!!  That sounds real American,
if someone in America, the land of freedom of speach tells the truth and
you don't like it, go TATTLE and see if you can stir up trouble.

Frank, Why don't you just realize, as I have tried to get you to in the
past, You do not know anything about the manufacturing world. You do not
know much real history to all the AMC clubs, their problems, etc. You
were not THERE when the Splits started, you don't know. You so far to
me, in nothing AMC, [and this is NOT a put down, just an observance]
ever shown me you even know what the AMC hobby really wants in a
newsletter. You don't seem to ever really know the real players , you
don't know the REAL them, even when you know their names. Not the Public
person, the Real person.

Our run in, where I paid you for ads in AIM. well, I paid you cash
money, and after SIX months I finally saw an ad. Did I accuse you of
trying to steal my money?? NO!, Did I accuse you of ''keeping my ads
out, running someone elses?? NO! Did I belive, and say so, that I felt
you were INEPT at printing a magazine in which after 3 phone calls, and
one face to face meeting before you could  run the ad you ASKED for and
was PAID for?? Yes, I told you I did not think you were paying
arttention to your business. Try to GET this this time please. Others
have DEMONSTRATED they have gone out of their way to prevent me, & Tony
Z. from comercially advertising in their club publications, For what
ever reason. Frank Swagert does such a bad job of printing his magazine
that SIX months after he ASKED for an ad THAT NIGHT, and was paid CASH
money, it took THREE phone calls, and one face to face meeting, [3
months in] to ever get what was paid for. Do I think, or have I ever
said, Frank dishonestly kept my ads from public?? NO!!. Do I think Frank
is inept ?? YES!!!! Bout that simple. If I need kicked off the list, get
to it.

PLEASE Frank, at minimun post just what I said that Offended you so
much. If it did not offend you, then please don't SPEAK for the rest of
the list, maybe not a one of them was offended. Maybe they are now
Informed, and they don't like ''picky/choosy tactics that are being used
by the clubs. Maybe they will say so to their clubs and help FIX some of
the problem. Fixing the problem is much better than sticking your head
in a bucket and acting like it does not exist.

Later,
Randy Guynn
=========================================

Date: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 07:28 AM
From: Randy Guynn <amx69@swbell.net>

George,List,

George, if you are wanti9ng to talk Facts, then lets really talk facts,
not fantacy.

Fact, AMC offers TWO different carriers for AMC model 20 rears. Fact,
part numbert 319 0440 is for fitting 3.15 and up gears. Fact, part
number 322 6978 is for fitting the 2.87 and down gears. How is this
misleading George?? Comes straight out of the AMC Factory parts book.

Wow, George, you are a  magician, you can install gears on pieces they
were not meant to go on. Misleading???

Fact is, you are incorrect, fact is there are TWO carriers for AMC model
20. Sorry George, the parts book is correct, and thousands of Knowing
AMCers are correct. You cannot just swap any old gear on to any old AMC
20 carrier, you need the correct carrier for the gear you wish to run.

Ypou can argue all you want, that will not change the ink on the pages
of the parts book.

Thanks,

Randy Guynn
===========================================
George, List,

Now George, they don't allow any NAME CALLING on this list.
''KNOW-IT-ALL is NAME CALLING. Can't you post your OPINION without
resorting to such rash statements??

Fact is, you are arguing with the ink in parts books. Fact is , yes
there are typos in books, but EVERY SINGLE PARTS BOOK EVER WRITTEN BY
AMC, I don't think so.

As for ASE master mechanic, yes, I know one of those, in fact, hje is
the EXACT person that brought to my attention that a 2.87 carrier will
not work with a 3 series gear.

As for ''magic'' you must have a crystal ball or something because you
seem to KNOW what I have and have not done.You somehow seem to KNOW I
have not ever built a model 20 rearend, what else does your crystal ball
tell you I have or have not done in my life. Did your Daddy ever tell
you that NON Know-it-alls DON'T always know it all too?? Did Daddy ever
tell you ''Don't make assumptions, it makes you look foolish??

George, Don't call names, don't make argue with signposts, it makes ytou
look foolish and it does not get you anywhere.

Thanks,
Randy Guynn==================================================Jim,

Not my list, never said it was.

Engine paint was discussed pretty heavy about 6 weeks ago or so.And the
so called ''Special Block'' B.S. has gone on for YEARS, with same bad
rumors passed by the same folks that do not want to learn, just pass
B.S. and guess.

Never said I knew everything, I don't.I ask questions when I don't know.

when YOU JIM, Ask questions, Do you want the REAL facts, or do you want
RUMORS??

Do you not UNDERSTAND that when the same B.S. rumor gets passed  &
passed, Passed, that the real answers to questions NEVER really get
settled?? If you don't INTEND opn settleing something , then why ask the
question to start with??

Now plesase Jim, quit trying to stir crap and just stick to AMCs.

Thanks,

Randy Guynn====================================================== Date:
Sunday, September 14, 2003 10:59 AMFrom: Randy Guynn
<amx69@swbell.net>Steve,

Read it , liked what you said, and agree with what you said.

I don't think you leveled that at me, but at everyone in general.

As for ''being right all the time'', no one ever is. But right answers do a
lot
of good, wrong answers do a lot of damage. Facts are facts, they don't
change.
No matter how right or wrong someone is, the Facts remain a constant.

example, When someone asks, Can I fire 357 ammo out of my .38?? And they get
the answers, SURE, both the same diameter case. well, if you run 357 thru a
38
long enough[maybe the first shot on some junk] then you are liable to get
you
damn hand blown off. But the answer was ''correct'', same otter case
diameter.

The fight still remains the same. Facts are facts, they don't change. Even
if
someone lies to you, the FACTS still remain true. So, to me, it is not about
being right of wrong, it is about sharing FACTS not RUMORS. Still [to me] if
you KNOW, speak up, if you do not KNOW, SHUT UP and don't muddy the waters,
they are quiet muddy enough.

Just because you sell AMC parts& cars, Collect AMC parts & cars, Sell
Newsletters about AMC parts & cars Does not make you RIGHT or WRONG. What
makes
one right or wrong is the FACTS they use.If you are mis-informed, you are
still
WRONG.I would THINK Anyone that is SERIOUS about their hobby, would want the
FACTS so that they would KNOW they are passing off FACTS, and not years
worth
of RUMORS. Then on the other side of this, you have unscrupulous AMCers that
want but ONE thing, Your Money, They don't care about facts, rumors, lies,
they only care about ONE thing, Take you in, Seperate you from your money,
and
let you go. Lie, Cheat, & Steal
is all that type knows. That does not mean you KNOW you are being suckered,
it
means that Some will go to ANY length to lie to you, all the while leading
you
to THINK they are Really on top of things, while they themselves KNOW they
are
merely lying, cheating, stealing as much as possible.[name for this is
FRAUD} I
would HOPE that AMCers would want that kind of trash out of their hobby.

 Man, AMC sure built a lot of nice looking cars that I really enjoy looking
at,
working on, & LEARNING about.Facts is about the only way to LEARN, Rumor
does
not TEACH anything except falsehood.

Thanks,
Randy Guynn

============================================== Date: Thursday, September 18,
2003 09:47 PMFrom: Randy Guynn <amx69@swbell.net>Dan,

there are brakes which we can now buy to put on out AMC front spindle
stub. These are not Junl Yard swaps, they involve going to WilWood and
dropping quiet a few hundred bucks. The G.M. & Mopar crown has had these
for a long time, and that contengent does not seem to mind payi9ng good
money for good parts. However in the AMC hobby I find very few folks
will ing to ''duplicate'' what other car hobby guy's do, Buy what they
Really want. No, most times, they complain it is TOO HIGH. In other
words, there is no need to come up with anoth knuckle for AMC for much
better brakes. All you need do is just go to the place that already
makes them, plunk down the bucks, and away you go.

Now please do not take this as a put down, or ''getting on the AMC hobby
case'', it is not meant that way. What is meant is just what is said,
AMC crown will not [for the most part] spend the money on upgrade
packages likr Ford, Chevy, Mopar contingent will do. It is a hard cold
fact.

The other problem with all Up Grade parts from folks in car hobby , but
not in AMC parts, is, where pray tell is a ligitimate company going to
Advertise their AMC parts?? There is not ONE AMC publication that any
major manufacturer can trust to advertise in. Club newsletters  don't
cut it, I know, I speak to major manufacturers all the time. The
$2000-5000 per month per full page advertising these guys are used to,
DOES NOT exist in the AMC world. Major manufacturers, and the guy with
the FAKE business do not need to be advertising together in the same
publication. This is exactly why legitimate publications demand proof of
business before running ''Comercial'' advertising. No, not the AMC
hobby. Any club, no matter what baloney you pull, will allow you to
continue to lie & cheat the club members even when the ''power that be''
in the clubs KNOW it 100% . So, when the clubs will not have legitimate
places to advertise, manufacturers do not have anywhere they can
''trust'' to advertise AMC products, this results in the situation we
have now. AMC hobby did not get in this condition overnight, it was
''raised'' this way from infantcy, by a few guy's that formed their
little ''fifedom'' and so far, not a single one of the little ''fifes''
will relent control . As long as the ''kings'' of the hobby run each
club as their OWN, rather than for the ''good '' of the hobby, we will
have the same situation we are faced with today. Our long term future
should be in our own hands, but for some reason, we PAY someone else to
keep the AMC future in the Last Century, we pay the club leader
everytime we renew membership, to KEEP legitimate companies from have
anything to do with AMC because the clubs are for the most part, so OPEN
to abuse from non legitimate sellers. This always runs off legitimate
folks, because they don't want to be associated with ''underhanded
tactics''. So, we, the customer continue to pay to club leader, w2hile
in fact, the club leader does not CARE about his customer base. If had
had concern for you, the customer, the club member, he would do
EVERYTHING he could to be certain that no one would lie, cheat, & steal
to the rest of the club members he is being paid to Represent. Instead,
the attitude is, Let him lie, cheat, Steal, as long as he pays his dues,
I don't care, buyer beware.

Sorry if I got off subject. But yes, great bolt on brakes ARE available
to us, they just cost money. AMC brakes like this are not advertised
since the manufacturer feels he has no place to advertise the pieces.
But if you want that set of 11 or 12 inch rotors, & those neat 4 piston
aluminum calipers just like the other marques like Chevy, Ford, Mopar
have, you will have tp pony up the Same amount of money they do, about
$1200-1400 is the going rate. If you want $100.00 junk yard equilevent,
there is not on for AMC, but alas, there is not one for GM, Ford, or
Mopar either. I know these parts are available, I know AMC people that
have them on their cars. Not 100.00 junk yard swaps, but the new high
dollar ''good stuff'' like everyone says they wish they could get for
AMc. You can get it, it just costs money.

Thanks,
Randy Guynn===================================================== Date:
Saturday, September 20, 2003 10:54 AMFrom: Randy Guynn
<amx69@swbell.net>List,

First thanks so much to Tony Z. for providing answers about the
Edewlbrock rumors. Someone closer to the situation usually has the story
which is a lot closer to the truth. I too had doubts Edelbrock suddenly
stepped up with two heads & a drop on EFI all for lowly AMC in just one
season. Yes Tony, I understand your situation with Move and all, plus
some medical issues earlier this year: pust a lot of strees & strain on
a person.

Tony Z. was not just ''blowing smoke'' about anyone running commercial
ads in AMC publications. I too have been up against Closed Doors as
well. Example. I tried for over a solid year to advertise in CACI/AMCWC
with no luck at all. Phone calls directly to the man in charge got
nothing done. After over a year had gone by, and after I recieved my
''renewal'' notice, but I replied No renewal was coiming because I was
not allowed to advertise my business, THEN, I sudenly got a scribbled
note showing Ad rates. Too Little too late.

Again, AMO comes up as a ''hard'' place to get commercial ads run. My
personal expierence there. I wrote asking about commercial ad rates. Got
no reply. I called the AMO ad people, never got a return call, I had to
leave a message. In the year 2000, the AMO national show was in Houston
Texas. I again sought out the folks that takes care of AMO ads. The
''sponser a page''
 campaine of theirs had just started. I wanted involvement in that. I
could not get an ad rate. After more months of writing, Calling, I got
absolutely nothing. But the program is in full swing.

Backing up a step, When I saw AMO people in person face to face, I
inquired about running a commercial business card ad. They have those on
the back page. I was told ''there is no more room'' However, the curent
issue [back then] & the coming issues for the rest of that year had TWO
open places for business card ads.

Jock & NAMDRA, Yes, over the years Tony could well have tried everything
to advertise there with no results. I as well as Jock knows that due to
one thing or another he has been ''lost , unable to be found'' once or
twice over the years.

This goes back to what Tony said about '' Vendor troublemakers''. I have
never seen that term, & I don't know if that is how I would clasify it.
But..... Let this testemony show, Advertising in AMC club newsletters IS
NOT being handled in a way that is fair & impartial by the majority of
the AMC club newsletters. This testimony of Tony, & myself, should drive
hom,e the point I was trying to make with my Rant earlier. Major
manufacturers, Will not try to use Club publications to advertise
because they feel they cannot TRUST the club publication. In other
words, They put no trust in the fair & iimpartial treatment which SHOULD
be in place for a publication. The main stream media publications are
Legitimate publications that accept ads from Anyone that can prove they
opperate a business .

This post by Tony should prove to the AMC world that my rant about Clubs
& advertisers, Scam artists, Fake businesses and such is not Fantacy,
but FACT. This post should also prove what I have said the other major
manufacturers use the words ''Fifes, Fifedoms, & Kings, when describing
the various clubs and the club publications. IF, every club newsletter
was fair & impartial, anyone with a business willing to pay their going
rate for commercial ads would have an ad running. That IS NOT the case.
Someone somewhere in the organization STOPS certaing folks from being
able to advertise. WHY??? I don't know, I can suspect it is as Tony
thinks, ''other vendors'' that do not want the competition and they have
someone ''in their pocket'' so all competition gets nipped in the bud. I
do not Know this, but after while anyone with much of a brain starts to
try to figure out the WHY.

So, not in theory, but in Practice, this pretty much illustrates HOW &
WHY major manufacturers have thje opinion that they have of Club
Newsletters. Jock, Larry, Darryl, see, by your actions or your
underlings actions, you ''kings'' have taken money from your
''customers'' and KEPT them from KNOWING about certain things & vendors
in your publication. Yes, you have kept this hobby in the ''dark ages''
, rather than let it evolve with the rest of the mainstream automobile
hobby as it grows.

Now maybe since you folks can see that Randy & his rant is not an
issolated incident, you can begin to understand the ''hole'' our hobby
is in. Just like has been said, you cannot TRUST the ''kings'' & their
newsletters. All the Favortisim needs to STOP in its tracks, but it Will
Not. ''Kings'' will not let it. Their attitude is, ''I have done it this
way for 30 years & i will run it like this til the day I die'' same way
dictators run countries. The Major manufactures were not Born knowing
these things, they Learned them over time. AMC hobby is no different in
that respect that Chevy, Ford, or Mopar. This is why Majors do not
advertise in ANY club type publication. They learned that ''they can't
be trusted''.

All comments welcomed, this is how the uneducated gets an education when
there are no ''classes'' on the subject.

Thanks again Tony for telling us what you know, what you have been thru,
and your personal observations on advertising with club publications.
Keep up with the Patches, good luck on getting settled in new place.
Congrats on 18 year marrage, I am now pushing toward 34 years myself.

Randy Guynn=================================================== Date: Sunday,
September 21, 2003 10:54 AMFrom: Randy Guynn <amx69@swbell.net>Listers, Very
sorry if every time you see CAPS in my post you read that
as YELLING. If you were talking with me, you would not hear yelling. You
would see body language and you would hear voice inflection, not
YELLING. The genuses that came up with the internet, and yes, they were
genuses, I am not making fun, have not come up with a way to type what
you want to say, the way you want to say it.

I try in most every post to omit names. in some cases, it really does no
good. Like clubs for instance. I believe everyone for the most part
knows the names of the folks that run NAMDRA, CACI/AMCWC,AMO, RAMBLER
clubs. And, in that one sentence, I believe I have again proven my
original point. Who runs each club.

I am not perfect. I never will be perfect. Heck, I don't even try. What
I do try to do, is know for certain anything I can learn AMC because I
just do not like believing wrong stuff. I don't like being lied to. I do
like to see others lie to  majority of people in a public forum either.
I don't like myths , I like facts. If facts are printed, and if printed
facts differ, one set is wrong. I personally do not wish to believe the
wrong thing. I assume that no one else in AMC land wants to believe
wrong info as well./ I believe this based on 50 years on this planet. So
far, I have yet to locate a soul that says'' I want to understand
everything wrong. I want to learn it wrong. I want to believe everything
in life wrong. No, human nature tells me that every human really wants
to know the truth. Some may just dig a little harder to get at it.

Over the years, all sorts of wrong things have been in public mind.

World is flat. Shoot, at one time you could be put in jail if you said
any different.

Oswald is lone gunman, shot Kennedy, Well we don't know the truth to
that one yet, when the generation that was here is dead and gone,
another version will be given to that public. truth has been sealed for
50 years.

Many folks over the years that knew the truth about things, had to drag
the detractors kicking and screaming into Reality. Sometimes I feel that
way. It is plain as day, no leader of any club is going to Modernize,
they are going to strangle the hobby  rather than let it mature along
the lines of every other car hobby. Just as I stated, the attitude you
see in their actions, ''I started this club, I ran this club like this
30 years, I am not changing a thing.''

This post started because a lister askled about swaping from spindles so
he could add big brakes to his AMC. In telling him he has no need to
swap spindles[good as far as I know] I added ''why'' we do not see this
in print anyplace. I added why major advertizers do not ''use'' club
publications.

I was met with a bunch of mumbo jumbo from Jock. I was not met with
Hum???? Maybe we need some change. I was met with, ''I started this
club, I ran it this way 30 years, I won't change a thing.'' I was met
with many mis-statements.  I refuted those.Can anyone point out the
mis-statements I made??

Just to rest those minds that see ''trouble'' in the wind everytime
something like this comes up, Jock and I have no problems with each
other. This is ''conversation'' This is debate, not kicking, biting,
hair pulling dogfight.

Just as a warning for ''coming attractions'' I along with some others
are planning to debunk as many ''myths'' about the SS/AMX as possible.
We would like to use facts only, no myth, and we would also like to
avoid'' he [names] said this, he said that, we want hard cold facts, not
hearsay. This might ruffle a few feathers since there are some people
with great AMC reputations that believe the myths. But, you know what??
The world ain't flat, it has been proven. And they did not build
65,72,96,103,55, ''original'' Hurst SS/AMXs. They built ''originally'',
52, or 53, and we hope to drop that to the ''correct'' number since that
is a myth at this point.

 This is sorta like the Block research going on now. It sure looks like
this ''special RARE block'' is not so special or rare. It sure is
looking like it was just a common replacement piece available for 11
years. The only folks I know of that would be upset with the truth are
those that want the ''public'' to believe the rarity so they can charge
super high prices for a Trans AM block.However, some folks are upset ,
they want to continue to believe a fairy tale , they don't want to admit
they have believed wrong information all their AMC lives.

again, what is wrong with the truth, and why would anyone want to stop
anyone else from ''spreading'' the truth??? Once you know the truth
about anything you can be more confident about things. Nothing wrong
with confidence either.

Sorry for any caps here, I did not yell once here, tried to get across
voice inflection, except AMC, I use caps out of respect, this too is not
yelling AMC.

Thanks,
Randy Guynn============================================== Date: Sunday,
September 21, 2003 03:11 PMFrom: Randy Guynn <amx69@swbell.net>Guy's, Gal's,
let me re-state things.

As most of us look around the car hobby in general, I believe we see
that the Big Three [automakers] all seem to have a lot of vendors
building them parts. We see magazine after magazine on the news stand.
This is an industry. Not the magazines, the whole car hobby period. When
we look at history, we follow what has made each group grow larger and
larger, along with spawning an aftermarket industry as well, some of
that industry builds ''marque'' specific pieces only. Then, the cottage
industry is born. . Opps, no, it is not in that order, let's look at the
order.  Look into history .

Car companies built the cars. We bought them or fell ion love with them
when they were new. We started to attend car shows/races, and
participate or spectate. We started clubs. Parts were needed so we made
them. We met the need. A guy [Moroso a good example] started building a
product in his garage. He competed, product proved to be a winner, he
grew, no longer was he building one part in his garage. No longer was he
a ''cottage '' industry.

Car clubs started for everything from Volkswagons to AMCs. As the Big
Three clubs matured, they saw that in order to attract more people, and
in order to draw more money into their events, they needed a broader
platform than a club newsletter. The club therefore started a mainstream
magazine. At first a quarterly, then it moved to by monthly, then to
monthly. It went from pulp paper to slick white copy. It did this over
about 10 year span. It started wit Chevy, the Ford, Pontiac, even beat
Mopar to the punch. If you look at Mopar club history, their clubs did
not even exist when AMC had 4 going strong. Well, two, then split, thjen
split again.

So, rather than AMC clubs following suit with what has grown them all,
Even when AMC had onlt TWO clubs, it did not Mature, it Split, it
desentigrated into what we have today. And at this point, the powers
that can solve this problem do not seem to want to solve it. And there
is no ''plan'' for long term future or growth. Adding membership is not
maturity. Old age is not maturity, going to the ''next level'' is maturity.

what have manufaturers done?? Climbed on board, spent the promotion and
advertising dollars and Supported a past time that was ''legitimate''
and not  what they have come to call Kingdoms & Fifedoms in National car
clubs. The only reason is because of their Past at dealing with the
various clubs.

In talking to any of the leaders of the national clubs, I have yet to
see or hear of any such long term plans. The plan is simple, ''Keep it
just like I made it ''

Yes, we had the 100 year show, and yes it was great. How would you like
one of those every single year?? How about even bigger shows, every
single year. Right now, Mopar, a marque that was just a spec on car club
horrizon just 15 years ago, now puts on the largest show in the Mopar
show in Columbus , Ohio, than even NHRA has attendance at some of its
national events. There is absolutely no reason that the AMC hobby cannot
have nicer, bigger shows every year.

Well, ,under the current leadership, NO, as structured now, that cannot
happen. Even at the 100 year show, as always, one club had to start some
bull which was looking all to hell like a law siut all the way up until
10 minutes before the gates opened. And again, what does this go back to
and once again prove?? Kingdoms & fifedoms cause trouble. Even if the
majority are getting along, one king rounds up his troops and starts
trouble.

I don't really know any other way to put it. The AMC hobby is in the
condition it is in because no one in leadership role can see what the
rest of the auto hobby world has done to get to the next level, and each
time you talk next level they come up with excuses to keep it the same.
They are so ''backward'' from everyone else, they will not even
legitimize their Vendor pool. Buddies and Friendships, extra money in
the bank account seem to take presidence over evenhandedness and
fairness, and if you say anything you are treated as a Pariah. I do Not
believe all clubs should band together. I Do Not believe we need ''one
big club'' I Do Not believe we need to do away with any club. I do
believe we need to ''move to the next level as most other Marques have
done. I see No One at all in any leadership capacity taking the move. I
see no one even thinking of the future, Only next year, what I have to
ready with my limited funds. Only how many more members can I sign on. I
see or hear no thoughts at all about trying to move our hobby in the
direction where Car hobby has been a great success, Time after time,
Marque after Marque.

Take it as you please. None of the last posts had any yelling, but since
you always read a CAP as a yell, you automatically read it wrong.

Thanks for the public forum to post my opinions and also some facts as
told to me by manufacturers.

Randy Guynn============================================== Date: Thursday,
October 2, 2003 06:41 AMFrom: Randy Guynn <amx69@swbell.net>Sandy,List,

Thanks Sandy for the reply on the big show from your perspective.

Since I heard about this latest Club Fiasco that is looking like it is
going to Kill any big AMC show, I did a little investigating. It seems
the SAME club is the one stirring crap this time that nearly halted the
100 year show from happening. This Club is AMO. So, can any AMO club
members PLEASE give us a good reason that AMC club reps always have to
stir crap??? Can you please explain exactly WHO in the AMO organization
keeps the B.S. going??? Do we have 1,2,3, or more ''bad actors'' with
AMO?? Is this kind of bull crap what the normal ''run of the mill'' AMO
club member wants??

If you belong to AMO, why can't you contact ''those in charge'' to see
about getting this kind of baloney stopped?? AMO the largest club? I
don't know, but if AMO cannot play well with others, I feel the
''ledership'' should be changed. If the attitude is ''non cooperation''
then those with that attitude need to hit the road. AMO is a club of
thousands, are the AMO ''elite'' deciding what the club will or will not
support based on the WANTS of those thousands of members, or are the AMO
elite making club desisions based on what 1,2,or 3 of the ''elite''
want??/ And that desision they make is based on PERSONAL issues rather
than ''what is BEST for the AMC hobby'' as a whole.

These kinds of actions need to stop. I have absolutely no axe to grind
concerning AMO. But no matter what club that is ''non-cooperative'' in
the AMC hobby, they should be held accountable.

AMO,WHAT IS YOUR MAJOR PROBLEM????? WHY DO YOU SEEM TO ALWAYS BE THE
CLUB WITH A MONKEY WRENCH TOSSED IN THE WORKS???? WAKE UP< YOU ARE
HARMING THE HOBBY YOU REPRESENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![yes, yelling]

Thanks,
Randy Guynn=================================================RE: AMO
''COOPERATION'': opinions vs realityDate: Friday, October 3, 2003 12:28
PMFrom: Randy Guynn <amx69@swbell.net>Tom,

To answer your 1st question, ''Yes, I am listening, ARE YOU?????? The
hobby ''as a whole'' wants to move on, grow,mature, people are way tired
of the AMC buddy system. As far as AMC work, I have done plenty.

Your, ''Firstly, let me tell you who I am... bit is pretty much a waste.
I don't need to match your ''pedigre'' in AMC service  to have an
opinion on B.S. club politics. I have been involved with AMC since 1971.
You got two years on me. Big deal.

Let me tell you some hard facts  about AMO... you wrote.

How about you let me tell you some??  All you have done in the next two
paragraphs is ''confirm'' the same folks always run AMO, and always
''stick together'' and will NOT  change the little clique that runs the
whole show. Voting, who cares?? Ballot boxes have been stuffed before, &
will be again. If Darryl is tired, then get out. I will assure you, if
the office is vacant it will be filled. Maybe no one ''wants'' the
office because they feel they would have to fight tooth & nail to get
any progrees toward ''cooperation'' going.

As for me being President of AMO, or any other AMC club, national or
local, I refurse to be one. WHY????> Not because of the work load, but
because I am an AMC vendor. To me, ''maybe not everyone, but I have to
live with me'' Any person that is in the AMC business should never hold
club office of any sort. The reason should be obvious. In every case
where the ''Club pers'' is aslo in AMC business, there is always the big
question of their ''decisions'' based on what is best for their
business, not what is best for the entire club , or hobby. Conflict of
intrest is a very real issue. But on the same note, ''conflict of
intrest'' brought about by ''snubbing'' others is just as bad .

I HAVE put my money where my mouth is, I own a thriving AMC business. No
one, not AMO, CACI,NAMDRA, Local club chapter, No One, buys my plane
fare, pays for my room & meals, Just to get me to show up a national
event. This cannot be said for the most part about the National Club
''vollunteers''. As a matter of fact, Why don't you make the offer to
any AMO member for an ''all expenses paid'' AMC show trip. All you need
do is show up, go to a few meetings, lounge by the pool or bar and come
home. Oh, if you are not high enough up the chain of command, you might
have to judge a few cars. Yes, it is just absolutely so darned tough to
plan to make it to something you purport to ''love'' to do.

Board of directors mettings?? What a joke. Yeah, I been to exactly two.
Both were a complete farce and nothing at all was accomplished. In fact,
at Houston show, there was a ''side bar'' meeting during the directors
meeting about an issue which is still being ''covered up'' by AMO today.

You asked where I was at Houston, I was hemmed in between three large
trailers in the swap meet area.,I am a vendor remember? I almost had
heat stroke because of the situation which was brought about by a couple
of Lazy bastards. I brought $20.000 worth of inventory, what did you bring??
Make your opinions heard?? Another joke. My opinions were made known at
that show. I don't ''take shots & whine'' , I state my position and I
stick with facts. Anytime the ''establishment'' gets chalanged we always
have to have the ''whine'' crap brought up. Why can't you just HEAR what
is being said by Many, not just me?? People are tired of the club
politic crapola. They are tired of the fact that in EVERY case where
''cooperation'' is attempted that the same group is always tooing in a
monkey wrench.

Next you start wit, ''AMO has Bylaws.... Big deal. Yes, I am full well
aware of your by laws. I am also full well aware of the local chapters
by laws. I have had occation to see the bylaws in action, They are not
ever carried out when they should be. Hell, in houston when the4 bylaws
came up, not a single officer even was aware there were bylaws. In
otherwords, they did not even know what their duties were when they ran
for office.
You continue on in that paragraph with'' thatNational Meets must be
hosted........TWO YEARS prior..... First, let me ask, does EVERY show
that AMO supports HAVE to be called a ''national or regional '' show???
Is AMO so hard pressed to be ''the last man standing'' that they cannot
''support'' their club members attending a show where other AMC clubs
attend?? It is the fact that the Host club hands a big chunk of money
over to AMO that is in conflict here ???Does AMO not want to support any
show that does not6 put money in the club coffer??
If your shows are indeed set up for 2 years ahead of time, then this
brings up a few questions. #1, Why was there ever any question about
this 50 year show happening since AMO NEVER had that in the plans from 2
years ago?? And, that begs the next question, who at AMO dropped the
ball and did not ''plan'' for this important 50 year show?? Are
important AMC dates of no consequence to AMO?? Since AMO is ''locked in
to meets'' til 2006, then WHY doesn't anyone in the general hobby know
when those dates are so then ''they'' can plan around already set up AMC
shows so no show conflicts come about to force AMCers to ''pick'' which
show to attend?? This is just one little step towartds cooperation, can
AMO make that step??

As for your statement about //agenda'', I don't really have an agenda I
think AMO should follow. However, I do think AMO [the inside clique]does
iondeed have an agenda. I believe thaty agenda was set in place way back
in the CACI/AMO sister club days split. I believe that AMO still has
animosity over it and I think AMO leadership is ''dead set'' against
ever ''buring the hatchet'' and moving on. Therefore AMO makes sure the
set things up to ''omit'' others from participation & or  cooperate with
the other AMC clubs to have bigger and better shows every year.

Tom, I believe whaty I see. I see what is and has been going on a long
time, so do others. In the ''newsletter'' days, when the AMC hobby was
younger this baloney started with Larry and Darryl, so far, all the
other clubs have gone to ''forgive & forget'' lets move on. But AMO has
not shown this type of attitude.

The bottom line is that no matter who you are, how long you been in AMC,
no matter what you have done, that is all just talk. What are you doing
NOW to change the crap that keeps going on?? Are you trying to get
along, or are you trying to tell the world how much better your club is
than any other club?/ You just spent a big load of time telling everyone
what you have done. You just spent a big load of time telling everyone
how the ''clique'' is set up at AMO.You wanted to ''impress'' how much
better you and yours is, WHY???????????????? Is AMO so elitest that it
cannot get along with ''inferior'' clubs??

This e-mail is not ''getting on you or AMO'' this is about the entire
AMC hobby. The computer age has allowed it to grow past the ''wait for 2
month'' AMC club newsletter days. It[hobby] has grown with the computer
age. People are aware of the ''club problems'' and they want the
problems to stop. Everytime an opportunity comes along for
''cooperation'' then AMO seems to be the club that is trying to put
someone ''on the outside looking  in.Everyone that does not agree with
you is not a ''whinner''.

Anything wrong with the AMC hobby having one really big show every
year?? Maybe called an AMC convention?? Does it have to be ''you're
national or regional'' before AMO will support it??Anything wrong with
''respecting'' other AMC clubs with your prearrainged 2-4 year calendar
so conflicts will not arise??

Tom, glad you replied. Hope to be able to work thru some issues here. It
does however take more that one to cooperate. No one is trying to
destroy AMO,they are trying to get AMO to stop the ''problems' they seem
to create when dealing with other clubs. Even AMO members see the
problems and they want the crap stopped. Maybe you are so close you
can't see the issues.

Thanks,
Randy Guynn================================================Re: Tom Bunsey's
postsDate: Monday, October 6, 2003 04:32 PMFrom: Randy Guynn
<amx69@swbell.net>The issue is being ''spread out'' now to include all sorts
of things
that have nothing at all to do with the original question. The original
questionm was, and stiil is, ''Why is it that AMO has such an obstrutive
attitude when dealing with other clubs. ''

The question was simple, but Tom just spread the issues out by tap
dancing around the real question. When other folks beside me that are
full well aware of the issues TOM brought up, not me, then all of a
sudden you have AMO looking bad and getting a bloody nose just because
of issues and B.S. bylaws that are not followed keeps gettiung tossed
into the works.

And, thanks to Tom's tap dance, the next thing to come up is, '' lets
form another club.'' Well in my opinion, another club is not needed. AMO
does not need dis-banded, no AMC club needs anything except some
''understanding of what the real car hobby is grown into , and a PLEDGE
to get the AMC hobby on a par with everyone else. ''

Now, I could go on  amnd on about more ''misconceptions'' that folks
have about AMO and it's leaders, but that is not, and was not the
original issue. Let's drop all the retoric and get back to the
''original'' question. Can TOM answer the question  and only the
question , and leave out the B.S. ''everyone is AMO bashing, Whinners,
Etc, Just the answer, HONESTLY

Again, Tom B, The question is., ''Why can't AMO cooperate with other
clubs when an oppertunity comes along for a Mass meet. Multi Club meet.
Why is it EVERYTIME AMO has to start problems before, during, & after
those meets.

So, can you answer this Tom without adding in stuff like your last two
posts?? We don't need more issues you bring up that may or may not be
so, for Other folks that Know some facts, to reply about your
''misleading'' posts. So far, this has gone on for 5 days, and NO ONE
from AMO has stated an answer to the original question. Yes, answers, or
retoric have been posted, but not the answer that was asked for at the
start. So please, DON"T MUDDY THE WATER with mors B.S. , just reply as
to WHY AMO does this EVERYTIME, and IF AMO is going to continue to be
this way or if they finally ''UNDERSTAND THE AMC HOBBY AS A WHOLE''IS
TIRED OF THE CRAP AND WANT COOPERATION, NOT OBSTRUCTIONISM??????

Thanks,
Randy Guynn=================================================AMO Bashing
(PerceptionDate: Tuesday, October 7, 2003 07:49 AMFrom: Randy Guynn
<amx69@swbell.net>Tom,

Yes buddy, I can indeed name time, dates, and peoples names, I WILL NOT
do that here as I truly believe that type of Info is not something that
this list wants to read.

In fact that is what I tried to send you which has bounced 3 times now.

Again, You are tring to paint me with a brush that is the wrong color,
Randy is not constantly haroping on AMO, it just so happens that AMO
screwed up the 50 year show so that came out. If NAMDRA had screwed it
up, then NAMDRA would be asked what there problem was.

Look Tom, Either you have a bad memory or you are just not very well
informed. Facts are, the first big show, 1998, I believe, AMO stired
crap before & during the show. Then when the 100 year show came along,
even though everything was totally set up, just  minutes before the
opening of the show, yet another round of AMO B.S. almost caused a law
suit to be filed to stop the show. Now, at a 50 year show, AMO cannot
seem to Cooperate again.

So, the question comes up, ''Why can't AMO get along with the other
cluibs when BIG shows are planned. ?'' And so far, You or anyone else
with AMO has STILL avoided giving an answer. Just like in your post
here, More retoric, not an answer. Just exactly what I expected from
anyone answering for AMO.

As for me griping about ALL the car clubs, I do some of that. Why???
Because they have issues that they will not take care of . EVERYONE of
them do, not just AMO. Point is, this time AMO is being asked WHY?? And
again I might add , I have yet to see a proper reply. I see again retoric.

Now Tom, I will ask if AMO has any bylaw that deals with Member
Honesty?? If so, can you provide the exact wording of that by law?? I
have bylaws from AMCWC, and LOCAL AMO club, but in my three times of
being an AMO member I have never seen any National Bylaws. You seem to
grant the bylaws much as you quote them as to ''how AMO is run.'' So,
anything there dealing with member honesty??

Looks like we will indeed have a 50th show now. But now the question is,
weill AMO again stir crap with every other club, or is AMO ready to
Cooperate with ALL the other clubs.

See, Tom, The question is still here. Are we going to see cooperation,
or are we going to see more B.S. ???

Thanks,
Randy Guynn

P.S. try sendinmg me someting direct and let me see if I can then return
E-mail to you Tom. I would just LOVE to give you some facts ''off list''
and continue the debate that way. Maybe then by the tap dancing around
the real question, you will not inflame others to make comments about
the retoric you keep bringing to the table. Everytime you use the
retoric then others that KNOW BETTER reply, and AMO just gets another
bloody nose over something. The best way I believe is to take this off
list, AMO will indeed look a lot better if the other B.S. you bring up
is not
discussed.===========================================================Re:
AMCUDate: Tuesday, October 7, 2003 08:28 AMFrom: Randy Guynn
<amx69@swbell.net>Kelly, Great, the club is not yet formed and already we
have someone
wanting to use politics in it by deciding who can contribute and who can't.

My suggestion is to ban anyone that wants to ban anyone else. And I
might also add that anyone that thinks it is ''easier'' to swap a Chevy
engine in an AMC than it is to just simply bolt in an AMC engine be
banned. Afterall, we don't want Chevy folks in an AMC club, and we don't
need anyone with such a limited amount of brain power. Anyone is smart
enough to know the engine that already fits is much easier to install
than fabricating parts to insdtall something else. DUH!!!!!!!!

There are plenty of Chevy list out there , what is the problem with
taking your chevy additude over there???

Thanks,
Randy Guynn

=============================================================Re: AMCUDate:
Tuesday, October 7, 2003 12:53 PMFrom: Randy Guynn <amx69@swbell.net>Kelly,
I would be more than happy to forward you e-mails that were sent
privately oto me in TOTAL support of mt issue with AMO. I would also
send you support fotr getting Chevy powered AMC owners off tyhe list.

Since you had the smart butt Idea about Banning folks, I would think it
was YOU that does not know wehen to ''keep their mouth shut'' So crawl
back in your hole and leave my name out of your childish posts and you
will not hear anything from me.

Pretty simple, if you don't like me, then keep your mouth shut about me.
If you want a reply, use my NAME, it will get you a reply. I figure when
you use a persons name you should expect a reply. If you have the
''right'' to spout off about Bans, then I too have the same ''right''
Don't stir any crap with me, I stir none with you. I would think your
Mom & Dad would have taught you that.

So, reply back with more of you Childish Crap, I have had my say, you
will not get another peep out of me from your CRAP.

Thanks,
Randy Guynn===========================================================Re:
Please make it stopDate: Tuesday, October 7, 2003 04:50 PMFrom: Kelly Tipton
<jktipton@aol.com>Hey, Chris .... welcome to the club, You are the new
insultee for the day. He's
like the energizer bunny, keeps going and going and going. At least he
didn't
call you stupid................yet. This is actually getting fun!!!! I
wonder
how many people he can do in a day? The gauntlet has been laid down......go
Randy go!!!!


On October 7, 2003 Randy Guynn wrote:

> Chris, considering that until the last 4 days, you, Chris have not
> posted a thing to the list for Months, then \you should not have a lot
> to say about those that post all the time. The topic might not be
> somethiung you like, but that does not give you the right to keep the
> MAJORITY of folks from posting what they want to post. WOW, we really do
> need someone that posts every 3 months to make decisions on the list
> topics> NOT!!!!!
>
> If you don't like something, KEEP hitting delete. If you find something
> you like, read it. If you want to reply, then do so. But please do not
> try to ''run'' any discussion ''off the list'' because you, a part timer
> does not liike the topic.
>
> Thanks
> Randy Guynn

=======================================================Re: 50th. Anniversary
of AMCDate: Wednesday, October 8, 2003 07:06 AMFrom: Randy Guynn
<amx69@swbell.net>Frank, List,

I also do not care who puts on the 50th year show. Don't care if it is
AMO, AMCWC, NAMDRA, RAMBLER CLUB, or Jerry Springer [some of you seem to
be fans] As long as the show is held . One hope would be that since this
would be the 3rd try at a mass meet, if ALL of the clubs could restrain
from causing each other trouble.

also, as big an ''A'' hole as everyone seems to think I am, at least I
brought it out in public that there was going to be no show because of
club conflict, I hung in and did not cave in. It sure looks like as soon
as the AMC-LIST decided to talk of a ''new club'' then someone somewhere
woke up and listened and we are going to have a 50 year show.

So, bash me all you want, get mad quit the list, but at least you are
going to have a 50 year show. Thanks to anyone else that had part in
this for the positive outcome. A big fat 1st class ''rasberry'' to all
the detractors.

Listers that WANT something to happen in the AMC hobby, Keep it going.
Listers that don't care, keep hanging on the coat tails of those that do
want something to happen, we will all get there at the same time that way.

Most of all, THANKS to whoever got off their butt, made the call to the
correct people and got this show going. No matter what club you are
with, or if a member of all 4 clubs. THANK YOU for having the good sense
the listen to what the hobby wants.

Breat out the Harpoons, let the dart throwing begin. Would you prefer me
tied down or can you hit a moving target?? LOLOL,

Thanks,
Randy Guynn===========================================================Re:
AMO Bashing (Perception and Reality)Date: Wednesday, October 8, 2003 08:46
AMFrom: Randy Guynn <amx69@swbell.net>Tom,

If you would please go back and read the next post, that is headered as
TOM BUNSEY PLEASE, then maybe you would not have posted this. Once you
read it , I believe it is very plain that I have done everything
possible at this point to contact you. I offered in plain english to
call you on my money, and asked for a number, day, timeframe.

as for your E-mail, at different times I have trouble with contacting
many folks with AOL. It happens, it goes away, It does not involve every
AOL customer, it involves some, and again at different times. When I
first made the accusation you had a non-recieving e-mail asddress I had
not noticed the AOL connection. There is nothing wrong with my computer,
your computer, it is just a glitch in internet comunications for some
reason.

You know, I get a very fair share of crap from listers because I use any
capitol letters at all, You seem to have carte blanch to YELL!!!! All
you please with every word. Double standard because you happen to be a
big shot in AMO?? Or just being rude??

Again, I do not know how much futher ''off list'' I could try to take
this. Do you have a phone number, time/day  that will be O.K. to take a
phone call. If this is not good enough, how about an address, I am
getting ready to take a trip????

You are at bat Tom, Already one big old ''down the center'' ball was
just ''looked by'', You ready to go on, or are you going to ignore the
offer and continue to snipe??

Now  you DID send me an e-mail and the way I read it, plainly I thought,
it basically said you were going to ''take this off list'' when I asked
publicly that we continue this off list. If the wording led me to
believe otherwise then it must be some form of ''doublespeak''

I did see that some AMC -Listers are ready to move on, and since we are
going to have a 50 year show, then it was time to move ''off list'' with
the topic. So, this is WHY I asked to move it off list.

Tom, Post all you want, this is the LAST publicly on this list I will
make any more comment on the subject. Now, for the very last time also,
I am ready to spend TIME & MONEY to talk with you about some issues, Are
you willing to spend the TIME only??

Sorry guy's , Toim could not get it and I had to explain 3 more times in
this post. This is really  my last word on the subject here.

Thanks,
Randy Guynn============================================================Tom
Bunsey (apparently disappeared)Date: Monday, October 13, 2003 06:09 PMFrom:
Randy Guynn <amx69@swbell.net>Jim,

believe it or not, every person on this posting list may not share YOUR
thoughts. And since Tom Bunsey said publicly on this list he would
entertain some discussion, I thought some of the folks that do not share
your own personal thoughts might want to know than absolutely nothing at
all is happenoing a week later because one party will not Cooperate.
That is thje EXACT issue to start, AMO folks will not cooperate with
others.

I see nothing Personal about any '' private fight '' as you put it. I
did see an awful lot of posts about the subject WAY AFTER Collin asked
it to Stop, so that kinda proves that Many folks on this list do not
follow your line of reasoning.

Now, if you wish to stay un-imformed, then be so, QUIETLY. As for those
that would want to know, Why would you want to stop them from learning
the truth???  Had you just ''passed'' on mouthing off, not another word
might have been said. Now, I am sure others will have something to say
as well.

I suppose it would just be way to easy to just read the post and take it
for what it is, INFORMATION. Nope, Gotta make it PERSONAL  by tossing in
Your post which no one really wanted EITHER. [according to you]

Thanks,
 Randy Guynn============================================================Re:
Tom BunseyDate: Monday, October 13, 2003 06:14 PMFrom: Tom Bunsey
<TABunsey@aol.com>On October 13, 2003 Randy Guynn wrote:

> Just thought you folks might want to know, that Tom Bunsey is
> unavailable to discuss things AMO and AMC in general. Even after I wrote
> twice I would spend my time & my money to discuss the situation , and
> Tom had to come back 2-3 more time pu7blicly spouting off, Privately he
> cannot be located. His e-mail address provided does not work for all to
> contact him and I guess he cannot afdford a phone because he will not
> pass me a number to call him.
>
>  Tom seems good at Retoric, bad on Follow up.
>
> Just thought I would let you know, things as usual with AMO biggies,
> [private response]''We are right, you are wrong, and we will not discuss
> it.'' That is the True, Result of  Private response, in Public, ''we
> would like to discuss problems.'' Then run hide and continue to snipe
away.
>
> Thanks,
> Randy Guynn




RANDY:

I WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT THE LIST ADMINISTRATOR HAD LET IT BE KNOWN
THAT
HE WANTED THIS "DIALOG" TO CEASE. SO, LIKE A GOOD LITTLE BOY (AT LEAST MY
MOTHER THINKS SO), I CEASED POSTS ON THIS TOPIC.

WAS I INCORRECT?

AS FAR AS EMAIL IS CONCERNED, AS I POSTED PREVIOUSLY, MY EMAIL ADDRESS AS
POSTED ABOVE IS CORRECT. YES, IT IS TRUE THAT I HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANY
REPLIES
FROM YOU ( BUT WE HAVE ONLY YOUR SAY-SO THAT YOU ACTUALLY SENT ANYTHING).
YOUR
ALLIGATION THAT I AM A LIAR DOES NOT, IN FACT, MAKE IT TRUE.

I HAVE RECEIVED SIX PRIVATE COMMUNICATIONS VIA MY EMAIL ADDRESS CONCERNING
MY
POSTS. SOMEHOW, THEY MANAGED TO GET THROUGH. SINCE THEY COMMUNICATED
PRIVATELY,
I CANNOT (IN GOOD FAITH) REVEAL WHO THEY ARE, AS OBVIOUSLY IF THEY WISHED TO
BE
KNOWN THEN THEY WOULD NOT HAVE COMMUNICATED PRIVATELY.

YOU POSTED ON THE LIST THAT YOU HAD RECEIVED AN EMAIL FROM ME. DID YOU
ATTEMPT
TO USE THE "REPLY" FUNCTION ON YOUR BROWSER TO SEND A REPLY DIRECTLY?
I NOTE ON THE LIST THAT A MEMBER IS HAVING DIFFICULTY WITH AOL 8.0 AS HE
ATTEMPTS TO POST TO THE LIST. OBVIOUSLY, FROM MY EMAIL ADDRESS I ALSO USE
AOL.

AS FAR AS PHONE NUMBERS ARE CONCERNED, YOU ARE CORRECT. I DELIBERATELY DID
NOT
POST IT. HOWEVER, IT IS NOT AN UNLISTED NUMBER, OR IF YOU ARE AN AMO MEMBER,
YOU CAN LOOK IN AMERICAN MOTORING (AMO NEWSLETTER) WHERE MY ADDRESS, EMAIL
ADDRESS AND TELEPHONE NUMBER HAS BEEN POSTED FOR ABOUT THE PAST TEN YEARS.
IN
FACT, ALL OFFICERS OF AMO HAVE THIS INFORMATION IN THE NEWSLETTER.

BTW, I DO NOT HAVE CALLER ID, EITHER.



SINCERELY,

TOM BUNSEY

I SUPPOSE THAT IF WORST CAME TO WORST, YOU COULD ACTUALLY SEND A LETTER?


====================================================ADMIN: Establish list
police?Date: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 08:10 AMFrom: Randy Guynn
<amx69@swbell.net>Colin,

This post is not about any other selected post at all, but things in
general. When someone posts something here that another person does not
like, the ''offended'' person always has to put up a post explaining how
''this subject'' does not need to be here.........
Then a reply to that goes up, then sides get chossen and off to the
fights it goes.

Maybe the problem is not what was originally posted, maybe the problem
lies with the complainers about the post to start with. Why should one
person decide for over 500 people what should or should not be posted??
And why would they think that ''their'' personal feelings are exactly
the same as over 500 others??

It seems really plain to me that when ''any'' post goes up, and
absolutely no reply comes for that post, that the entire issue gets
dropped. Example, I asked what a Pacer weighs, no one replies, no one
complains, the post just dies.

Destructive behavior?? In most cases debates do not bring on
destruction. I have seen far more destruction done by Lies than by
Truth. In debate good things can happen but only thru cooperation. If
one side is bent on non-coopperation then the debate goes nowhere
because one party is dishonest. Honest folks answer honestly, others
answer with retoric trying to avoid the real issue. The retoric brings
out others that know the truth, the real issue gets bogged down while
spats go on about retoric and then you have ''destructive behavior''
brought about why?? Because of the retoric used to avoid the real issue,
not because someone brought up an issue,, but because someone
''avoided'' the issue.

As for List membership numbers. Yes, it is 100% true that many, many
folks did not sign back up after the service change. But there are other
reasons as well. I go to AMC shows and I see folks and talk with them.
The answer I get from folks when I ask about the AMC-LIST is that they
quit the list because it is broken so often, and for so long at a time.
Most say they don't care about what gets posted, they care about being
able to use the list when they need to use it.

Maybe the best way to ''police'' the list is simple. If you see a post
you don't like, Ignore It. Because as soon as you post something about
it you are sure to get a reply. Maybe the best policeman is the
individual . Why do adults need a ''boss'' to tell them what to do?? To
tell them what they can post?/ What they can't post?/ Why do adults feel
they have to go ''tattle'' to ''daddy'' to get what they want?? If you
do want a thread to ''stop'', then, all you need do is ''start with
yourself'' and DON'T REPLY. The thread will stop when no one wants
conversation  on the topic. This earth has been around eons and so far
that is how things work out.

There must be an awful lot of folks that post to this list that have
forgotten that they live in AMERICA, they are calling for leadership to
''control'' free speach. If you want ''control, then CONTROL yourself.
If you see something posted you don't like, keep it to yourself. If no
one replies to the post, it will go away.

Thanks,
Randy Guynn==========================================================RE:
COLIN: Profanity [longer than long]Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 12:16
AMFrom: John Rosa <JohnRosa@JavelinAMX.com>> From: Guynn
[mailto:amx69@swbell.net]
> First we start talking getting a band of guys together to monitor and
> enforce list rules. Now, before that first ''police '' action can even
> get off and going, we need a ''filter'' to filter out what some may not
> want to see, some see as Profane. What is next?/ You like only AMX 2
> seaters so that is all that can be discussed??

Randy and all,

Colin mentioned profanity issues, and I offered
a thought about automatic filters that may or
may not be usable or even effective.

As has been said here many times before, this
hobby is NOT an 18-and-over item. Kids are
encouraged to get involved in the old car hobby.
And there are those parents that do not want
their children exposed to profanity (not to
mention those adults that simply don't care for
it). It's an awfully small SELF REGULATION (which
you're fond of suggesting we all should be capable
of, Randy) to ask for. But since not everyone is
capable of that self-control, Colin and others
must consider ways to minimize it so that we aren't
working to drive away everyone that acts differently
than you. Do we really need a 'adult language'
disclaimer on the sign-up page?

> This reminds me of a private e-mail from John Rosa replying about my
> post as to why I do not believe a Vendor should hold office in an AMC
> club. John said' ]paraphrased] If you told a shrink that you will never
> hold office because you do not ever want to be put in a position where
> anyone could accuse you of ''conflict'' of intrest... It would lead to
> years of sessions, That is Nuts.  Well maybe so, but I don't see it any
> more nuts that an adult begging for someone else to ''decide for him/her
> what they can easily decide on their own.

You didn't paraphrase me- you mis-quoted me.
I responded to your statement, and both follow:

> "I refuse to be an officer so that NO ONE can ever
> accuse me of steering a club in this or that direction
> for the benefit of my business."
>
> Randy, if you showed that sentence to a psychologist,
> they'd book you into several years of sessions. I'm sure
> you've heard the saying- "Whether you think you can or
> can not, you are right", or how about "Nothing ventured,
> nothing gained." What your statement REALLY says is you
> are unconvinced of your own ability to do the job right,
> and so it's easier to sit back and not try.

Again...

> I don't see it any
> more nuts that an adult begging for someone else to ''
> decide for him/her
> what they can easily decide on their own.

No everyone that reads this list *IS* an adult. It's
available to everyone including NON-members by way of
the AMXfiles.com website. Anyone with a computer can
land on it. And how is the reader to know that they
are reading a note from a foul-mouthed hot head until
they've read it....and then it's too late...they've
read it.

This isn't a free speech forum- it is, by charter and
definition, a subject-specific forum, and it's allowed
content is clearly laid out. It is not protected by the
Constitution. You, nor I, have any RIGHTS here. All the
bluster, anger, profanity and childish 'my way or the
wrong way' bullying will not change that.

You propose everyone self-regulate, then do none of it
yourself. You want action in the clubs, while attempting
to initiate none of it. Poison begets poison. You will
recall that often, including today, I've agreed with
many of your points. But, as I pointed out privately in
the same note you mis-quoted, it isn't your points that
bother people, it's the presentation. Sorry, but this
is not a protected speech issue. It's a club rules issue.
You are in perpetual violation, and the fact that the
admin of this group has been too busy to come down on
you for the abuses is not in any way justification of
your actions. You're so afoul of the field, your in a
different stadium. Yes, for as long as it is possible,
you can continue to rant at every person you don't
agree with. But in the end, only you will respect your
opinions, because even those that agreed with your
points will have long abandoned you. No one wants to
walk next to the guy that appears to be completely
crazy. It doesn't matter if he's right. He appears nuts,
and that's good enough for most folks to dismiss him
and his views.

> So, if you really apply
> this Majority Rules thing you see very well it does not play.

Therefore, democracy is wrong. What we really need is
one enlightened leader to show us all the way- a
Guynntatorship! You will get to decide what subjects are
allowed...these will be the ones, like in the recent past,
where you rail on some of us for doing things differently
than you want, then, when we make valid arguments for our
ways of doing things, you decide that subject is now
taboo...and you can then banish us. You know, like
when Tom Bunsey laid out his AMO comments- you argued
some of the points he brought up for a while, but when
you ran out of ways to attack, you decided you wanted to
narrow the thread back down to the original question,
where you believed you still had a chance of victory.
Sort of the 'I'm taking my ball and going home' defense
strategy.

> if you regulate long enough
> and hard enough then only maybe 10 guy's can keep the list going because
> as soon as the regulation kicks in more folks will drop off the list
> too.

The list isn't driven by a need to maintain a high
number or subscribers, as it is non-profit. It is
intended to remain high quality, as far as providing
information to folks owning or wishing to own an AMC.
As such, weeding the garden wouldn't hurt. Those that
remain would flourish.

Here's an idea. Randy, why don't you start your
own mailing list. Once started, you can post the
relevant subscriber info here, then this list
could institute tighter controls as suggested.
After 30 days, we can compare subscriber lists to
see just how right you are...or do none of your
complaints hold water? I know...you'll find a way
to say that you can't because being a vendor would
be a conflict of interest, or AMO might launch a
virus attack on your mail server or something.

Self-reinforcing delusion. I'm being alienated
and I'm going to say it so loudly that no one
will want to be near me..thus, I'm being alienated.


To quote that private Email here again, I said...

...from Theodore Roosevelt:
"It's not the critic who counts. It's not the man who
points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the
doer of the deed could have done it better. The credit
belongs to the man in the arena, whose face is marred
by dust and sweat and blood, who spends himself in a
worthy cause, who strives valiantly, who errs and
come up short again and again, who at best knows the
high achievement of triumph, who at worst, fails while
daring greatly for he knows his place shall never be
with those cold and timid souls who know neither
victory no defeat."

John W Rosa

http://www.JavelinAMX.com=============================================================Headers
by NewellDate: Saturday, November 8, 2003 07:40 PMFrom: Randy Guynn
<amx69@swbell.net>John,

I am the person that is getting shafted on the shorty header deal. If
you want to contact me I will be more than happy to share info.

Headers by Ed. The last I knew he already builds AMC headers and has
never tried to sell ''assemble you own'' kits. In fact, his ads brag
about the fit, so if it was ''build your own'' how could you brag about
fit when you don't know how the end product is built. I have spoken to
Ed personally face tpo face, and he has NEVER relayed that he sells
''assemble you own kits''.

Thorley?? They JUST built headers for the INDY HEAD 401 which Hot Rod
Magazine is doing. The engine has already been dynoed. I spoke with the
Owner of the car, and with Norm of WESTECH, the folks that build/dyno
for Hot Rod, they have the Headers IN HAND that Thorly built, or else
both of them went out of their weay to make up a story. I spoke to them
about two weeks apart. In the LAST YEARS Thorley catalog[there is
already a part number] they list plainly AMC Headers with a TBA[to be
announced] after the listing.

There are many facts that do not line up with the info you posted,
which[facts] are 100% true I do not know.

Regards,
Randy Guynn==========================================================Failure
again so soon??Date: Friday, December 12, 2003 09:02 AMFrom: Randy Guynn
<amx69@swbell.net>Well, the AMC-list has been ''timimg out'' and will not
open since
yesterday afternoon. This follows 4 days of being broken down over
Thanksgiving. I am not tryi8ng to be a butt, however I must ask a few
questions.
#1, is the ''server'' where the AMC-list is hosted JUNK???
#2, is there 'anyone' at all associated with the AMC-list that ever pays
attention to what is going on??
#3, is the main problem maybe all the Ads and Pop Ups and constant
barage of crap that is installed on the AMX Files of which the AMC-list
is tied to??
#4, Why is there ''never'' any explaination of why this posting list is
broken down so often???


And to think, Folks actually asked for money to run this list to help
pay for it What would we be paying for, A busted post site. If you need
funds to help pay costs, the very least you can do is keep the list
working and not take two-three-four days to figure out it is not working.
It is now to the point that no one can contact Colin when the list goes
down, if you do, you get a ration of treatment totally uncalled for. Jim
Stone just never answers.

Regards if anyone can read this,
Randy
Guynn=============================================================Someone
with problemsDate: Wednesday, December 24, 2003 04:34 PMFrom: Randy Guynn
<amx69@swbell.net>Can <soderberg@rock.com> PLEASE get your act together??
You have
subscribed to a posting list but you have BLOCKED the e-mail coming from
it. Kinda DUMB. Pleae get your act together.

Anyone have any idea who this person is??

Later,
Randy Guynn=======================================================Re: 2004
Kenosha Meet, Vendor I.D.sDate: Thursday, January 15, 2004 08:26 AMFrom:
Randy Guynn <amx69@swbell.net>Jock, List,

First let me say that I believe any person or business that can afford a
swap meet space should indeed get a swap meet space. Any business [in my
opinion] should already be known to be a legitimate business by the
clubs. Any business asked to provide proff  of owning a business should
be more than happy to provide a copy of their state business license.
Any person, non business, should not be required to show anything except
their entry fee.

I believe No One, ever, should have to produce their social security
number to sell parts at any swap meet. One problem that comes into play
here is our 'dumb butt'' federal government. Those Bozos' have decided
that a persons SS# is their Tax I.D. number.  So, by lumping all sellers
together, you must submit one of two things. Your real tax I.D. number
if you are a business,[scam vendors will not have a business tax I.D.]
or your SS#.

As far as my answer goes, Jock, I personally believe you are wrong. It
is not ''up to me to change it'' as you put it. It is up to the Dues
Paying Club Members .  As to your statemwent that NAMDRA will require
proof of business ownership as soon as some other club does, First off,
BOTH major clubs are doing so right now, you just reported it, this is
why we are even discussing the topic at this point. Second, and I have
asked this THREE times before with absolutely no reply, Jock, Why does
NAMDRA want to be a Follower in the AMC hobby and not a LEADER?????

Right is right, wrong is wrong. Adopting a business name when you really
do not own a business is wrong. Allowing folks to advertise as a
business when you absolutely know there is no legitimate business is
also Wrong. You are Knowingly allowing someone to lie to every dues
paying member you have. Exactly when does a ''hobby'' become a business??

What I cannot believe is Jock, you are lobbying for ''illegtimate''
businesses to exist.Jock, you are telling the world that you just ''do
not care'' at all if a rip off artist advertises in your club
publication. In fact, by your refusal to support legitimate business,
you are inviting other scam artists to continue the scam tradition. To
me it is awfully strange for Anyone, much less a club President, to be
championing the cause for illegitimate businesses to exist. Hard to
believe, but the facts are, you are saying fake businesses should exist
in this hobby.

Regard